“New Zealand Is Turning Into A Really Racist Country” – updated
For anyone wanting to get a feel for good old grass root opinions and issues in New Zealand you can’t go far wrong by logging on to the community message boards at the NZ auction site Trademe.
This is a thread that was started on 22 March 2010 and has generated a heated debate on the site about racism and how difficult it is for people to be accepted into NZ culture if they look different, it’s not even a ‘cultural thing’ just an open hostility toward anyone who doesn’t look like they ‘fit in’ Here’s the opening post and taste of the responses it generated:
“There is much discussion in our flat. We have one Chinese (19 years in NZ), one Filipino (8 years in NZ), one English (3 months in NZ) and two PI (12-16 years in NZ). The Chinese, Filipino and PI’s receive racist remarks on a regular basis yet funnily enough our English flatmate who have been in NZ the least amount of time is welcomed with opened arms. The Chinese is NZ citizen. Filipino & PI’s are permanent residences. English on working visa.
The majority of the racists looking down their noses at us are usually white. Umm didn’t you come here after the Maori? Tossers.
Our landlord & neighbour will gladly rent to us but complain immigrants spoiling NZ, stealing jobs here & stealing contracts overseas. It’s OK to take our money but it’s not for us to get jobs here. Hyprocrite. As soon as our lease ends we’ll be going.
NZ is seen as a racist country in some parts of the world. Even Bic Runga said so. The British countries are the most racist towards the Chinese and there is a lot of racism towards Maori. Being half Chinese and half Maori can’t be easy for her.
It’s no wonder there’s a decline in rentals in Auckland. So many empty apartments. Now all those redneck aparment owners and real estate agents wish there were Asian to fill the rentals. Sorry but the Asian students won’t be coming back to line your pockets.
There’ll probably be less tourism as well. Japanese friend have mentioned articles that frequently pop up on the web or newspapers about racism during tours in NZ. Again, it’s OK to take their cash and let them on the buses and let them stay in your hotels, eat in your restaurants but you want them out of sight. Hypocrites.“
- “NZ has always been racist. It’s more noticeable now because of the increase in our immigrant populations (which I think is great, by the way)”
- “yes i agree but nz is still better than were the complaining immagrants came from so if they don’t like it here fark off back to were they came from. and nz is not known as being a really racist country thats buls***.”
Original Poster: “We live in Auckland CBD and most of us are students.”
- “Oh well nothing more to do then bugger off then if you aren’t happy. Close the door behind you , thanks”
- “yea, and i agree this country is racist. I wonder why? when the goverment starts favouring one race, then it leads to unrest and that is what is happening.”
- ” for many of us the “Asian Invasion” (as it was called) happened too fast…..too many and too fast. It changed the face of city’s and suburbs that at times it didn’t feel like home any more. It was if we were the ones in a foreign country. It takes time to assimilate into a new culture.If immigration was processed slowly, many NZers would have been a lot more accepting. It has also been very hard to deal with rude arrogant and ignorant people, and sometimes I am not surprised NZers have become sick and tired of some immigrants.”
- if you came to NZ for a better life because your country is crap & it’s not working out for you then go somewhere else, i’m sure it wont bother any other NZ citizens. And I would bet that you were seeking cheap rent so will be living in an area with a significant number of ‘undesireables’ around you… that’s what happens. The answer is very simple… move to a better neighbourhood or go to another country… or go back home where everyone is so nice to you. lol.
To avoid confusion this is the Chinese flatmate here. Let me tell you about my experiences. I was one of those who immersed themselves into NZ culture. I came to NZ at a young age and totally embraced NZ. Was even in the kapa haka at school.There weren’t any Chinese schools or language lessons back then so I don’t know how to read or write Chinese. I can speak in a southern dialect but I don’t speak Mandarin.
You can’t imagine how much crap I get from NZ’ers about me not being able to read/write Chinese. They look at me like I’m stupid and sometimes they will say so.
You immerse you get crap. You don’t and try to sustain some of your own culture, you still get crap.
It’s a lose lose situation.”
- if you came to NZ for a better life because your country is crap & it’s not working out for you then go somewhere else, i’m sure it wont bother any other NZ citizens. And I would bet that you were seeking cheap rent so will be living in an area with a significant number of ‘undesireables’ around you… that’s what happens. The answer is very simple… move to a better neighbourhood or go to another country… or go back home where everyone is so nice to you. lol.
Original poster: No cheap rent. We live in Auckland CBD. Telling us to leave NZ when we’ve been here for most of our lives. You’re just as bad as those who tell us to either die or leave NZ on the street….”
We’ll leave you to read the rest. link
Update: read about the treatment of a South African journalist, Vata Ngobeni, in Taupo covering the world cup here
See also: An article in Philippine Nurse:
“Amid speculations that New Zealand is cutting down on foreign workers, the island country is still marketing itself to be a “choice” destination country for overseas Filipino workers (OFW).
Currently, OFWs in New Zealand are faced with the alleged tightening of registration for foreign nurses, taking into account the country’s assumption that Filipino nurses are not “at par” with their standards.
New Zealand Nursing Council chief executive Carolyn Reed has even previously expressed concern that the rapid increase in nursing programs in the Philippines has compromised the quality of nursing, prompting them make the registration for overseas-trained nurses stricter…”
I worked with international students a few years ago and some of the experiences of my students really opened my eyes to an underbelly of New Zealand society I had never encountered. Quite frankly, it made me deeply ashamed. There were the stories of random attacks on teenage boys for no other reason than they were Asian, or on teenage girls being elbowed, bullied, shouted out, sexually assaulted and told to go home, get off the bus, there’s the airport etc and those were just some of them. And then there were the stories of students fainting in class because they were being starved by their host “families” or living in rooms with mould that I wouldn’t put a pet in and not allowed to turn the heater on to keep them warm. Over the years I would have taught about 300 students and all of them had had racist experiences here and some that should have been criminalised. International students pay good money for their education, board etc and when they get here their treatment is appalling. Telling people to leave or get over it ignores and minimises the truly bad behaviour and attitudes that occur in NZ by NZers to people from overseas. The flip side is people should act decently toward other human beings and then people will want to stay – not leave. People take their experiences of a country wherever they go and I can only imagine some of the stories that they told their parents, grand parents, relations, friends, family friends etc when they got back. Where did our tolerance, values and sense of decency go in just making an effort with guests to our countries?
Tourists do not linger long enough to receive this treatment.
Migrants who stay longer, and do receive this treatment, usually want to put it far behind them, but some do speak out. Only to be criticised for negativity against New Zealand.
I am a migrant worker from Wales, renting at a low to medium economic level. The mould, cold, and neglect of human needs – lawful needs that would be unquestioningly met in any other country that called itself first world – something one becomes accustomed to but did not always foresee?
Pretty land. Toxic people. I am saving for airfare home.
YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT – PRETTY LAND, TOXIC PEOPLE, THATS WHY I LEFT THE PLACE A DECADE AGO. The country scene was just a gimmick to lure paying tourists, but beware of Nazi minded white heads trying to murder you when you’re there! Kiwis act in bad faith, and inside their hearts they treat you like an outcast. They all only want to take your money whether you’re in good or bad times, and nobody like to see you settle in with success and happiness. They are envious and hatred filled, only see you in bad terms and play toxic games with you, whether in public utilities, banks, or other institutions. They are there to screw you.
Thank you Annie, it’s shocking to hear how badly international students are treated in New Zealand, so many of them have been abused.
They are seen as little more than cash cows, worth $2 Billion annually to the NZ economy, you’d think that would ‘buy’ them more respect.
We’ve copied your comments and given them their own page under Quality of Life.
NO NEWZEALANDS NOT BEING RACIST..ALL THIS INCIDENTS GOR NOTHING TO DO WITH RACIST
i think ur mad
If all this isn’t racist what is it ?
Yes i agree they are very racist having lived there 10 years and experienced it first hand, generally kiwis are underachievers when you start being successful there all the shit comes out, easy for you pommes you get 3 dollars to our one, and the list goes on, decided to move on now life so much easier. The biggest racist ones are 90% of the chocholate people who seem to think the white kiwis owe them a living.
Completely agree with eric. They’re always banging on about how unjust their situation is, AND keep telling foreigners (especially foreign students) that they have to do MORE to support the locals (isn’t paying 5x the fees, having to deal with language/culture difficulty AND the weather enough)?
I would actually add to what eric says “The biggest racist ones are 90% of the chocholate people who seem to think the white kiwis owe them a living.” by saying that in times of hardship, there will be a large number of conmen coming from the section of society that considers itself “oppressed”.
It’s very necessary to scrutinise such peoples’ academic achievements by ASKING TO SEE their degrees, and verifying with the institution granting that certificate, that they were actually students there.
The “ethnic sensitivity towards natives” gets carried to ridiculous extremes when they are not asked to present credentials and qualifications that they demand of others.
White people of Anglo Saxon decent are no different from most of their counterparts in Canada, Australia and the US. They always think they owned the world, they invaded these countries (they called they “discovered” them), never bother to embrace the local culture (English is the first language and culture), treating all non whites like shits. Unfortunately for the aborigines in Australia, the Maori in NZ and the Indians in Cananda and the US, they were too weak to defend their land, and their population is too small to have any political influence. These whites refer themselves as Australian, Canandian, Kiwis and Americans, the rest are labelled based on their ethnicity. Fortunately for the Chinese in China, Indian in India, Malaysian in Malaysia etc they kicked out the British and retained the control of their own country and their culture. These countries are developing very quickly because they are no longer being ripped off by these whites who used to ruled their countries.
Now thats racist..
Rangi: just wanted to point out to you:
There is no ethnicity called Malaysian.
And I’d say that a fair amount of the Maoris in New Zealand don’t like Asians, e.g. Bailey Kurariki….
You’re right, I recently came back from a trip to Northland with some other Asian friends, and we were verbally abused by a group of Maoris, I can’t understand why the hatred, they lost their land to the Pakeha, not Asians.
Racism is something learned. I heard from someone native to New Zealand that their mothers taught them that Asians were not to be trusted.
As what Steve Baron learned from Hone Harawira. Steve asked the question: “Given the injustices past governments have imposed on minorities like Maori, Chinese, homosexual (he became very agressive and cut me off here), would you and or the Maori party support the introduction of binding referendums as a check and balance on governments.”
Mr Harawira used obscene language like the “f” word and statements like “my big black ass”. “He’s just a rude … thug,” Mr Baron said.
NZ job market is quite racist…I might have applied for at least 50 vacancies,but not even an interview call for me,even though i have excellent work experience.
My friend who migrated to US recently got a job within a week.My friends here informed me that jobs are first given to kiwis.Thats pathetic.This country is going to the dogs…best of luck with ur brothels,sex shops and a pizza co called “hell”…sucks
In reply to all of you, I am a new zealand born half Maori half european woman. Yes, there is a lot of racism here, but its not the to extreme where we have hate crimes, people being murdered. Even though we have a few narrow minded people living here, our laws are created in the way that if even the slightest threat of a hate crime was to take place, it would be dealt to swiftly and accordingly. New Zealand is a m,uch more peaceful place than a lot of you think. We have our problems like any other country, but i can tell you this. We are one of the most diverse countries in the world our prime minister welcomes new immigrants and they have as much right here as I do. At least we don’t have problems like the USA, middle east, China, and all other countries, We are good people, and if you have the right qualifications then you will get a job here, our top jobs are all given to immigrants. Most of our doctors are indian, asian, somalian and english. Pull your heads in, we aren’t as bad as you all make us out to be. And there is this thinking called ignoring. We are that laid back that if people are racist, we stamp them out by ignoring them.
I wonder if you think this is a hate crime, Penelope?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5120180/Student-bashed-and-robbed-in-safer-city
“”I’m walking when suddenly a car came from behind and three guys and two girls jumped out.
“One guy ran and kneed me me in the (lower) back and I fell front-on on the grass. Then they start yelling at me ‘you Indian mother-f****er, what are you doing here, go back to your own country, this is our country’.”
Karamvir said the group, all described as Maori in a blue Honda, continued to punch and kick him as he curled up in a ball to protect his head, before robbing him of $400 he had borrowed from a friend. His attackers also took his cellphone.”
Oh yeah, I had a similar experience in NZ, myself. I identified the people concerned when I managed to flag down a police cruiser. The police LET THEM GO.
Note there is no mention of the police in this news report, perhaps Karamvir had the same response as you did. He decided to go to the press with his story in an effort to warn others that Hamilton isn’t as safe as it should be for Indian people.
Sorry, Penelope, but you’ve got your head in the sand. I’m a Kiwi who spends time in Asia, Europe, Australia and NZ, and I’m shocked by the level of intolerance, bigotry and profound ignorance I encounter in NZ. I find myself apologising for the likes of Paul Henry to Indian friends from New Delhi who queried me after seeing his “dikshit” comments on Youtube. We’re smallminded and until we can accept constructive criticism, we’ll continue to decline. I also find NZers lazy and dishonest, so I changed my mind about coming back here. Oddly enough, Kiwis overseas have a good name, mainly because they’re often the hard-working ones with a bit of ambition who decided to better themselves and explore the world. The others just stayed at home to bitch about immigrants. NZers are the white trash of the Pacific.
thank you sean for being so culturally aware and open minded. i wish everyone was like you.
This extreme does exists in New Zealand, but perhaps you’ve chosen to ‘ignore’ this inconvenient truth? Have you forgotten about Korean man Jae Hyeon Kim who was decapitated by a white supremacist?
Did you know that the police do not collect statistics on racially motivated crimes in New Zealand? We have written about many, many accounts of racist attacks on this blog so we know they exist, not everyone is trying to “stamp out” this problem by ignoring it.
i LIVED IN nz FOR 2 YEARS AND IN 2 Years eat least once a week they called me prostitute or say to go back home because Im from a South american country, I speak english since I was born my accent is American and it´s easy to see that I am NOT one of them like they used to say.
beautiful land stupid people the assault me and my husband in chch because we were from overseas and you know what we called the cops and THE COP said to us to go home THATS NZ!
Oh dear. Good thing I did not go with my partner over there. Im asian myself but my partner is British. Racism is clearly a display of ignorance and ignorance alone.
A developed country huh?!
Good on you, I never ever ever saw or heard about racism in Brazil against Asians…I know that people take a second look when people from Favelas-Slums_ are coming…but in NZ God I saw so many people talking about Asians and Latins; One man Said- Talking about latins: though that you were funny people, talking different with weird clothes;and I wont tell about other groupes I think its unnecessary…
More proof of the racism in NZ:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10754578
unfortunately for NZ, they did it to a RWC visitor, a journalist from South Africa, and I’m sure this journalist will spread the word.
You’d hope so, it was no way to treat a guest.
The word has spread already. Stand by for a NZ PR charm offensive aimed at diffusing the situation, racism is a forbidden word in NZ after the Paul Henry and Hobbit casting call debacles.
Will Vata Ngobeni be offered a big ‘incentive’ to write positive copy about New Zealand? We’re hoping he holds out and remains true to himself, makes a stand and by doing so helps to prevent the same dishonour being inflicted on another visitor to NZ.
All our racism related threads are tagged here
The chatter on Facebook is that he is a big sook for speaking up after being unjustly accused, and that he is an embarrassment to his profession.
Of course, no surprises there, this chatter is coming from New Zealanders …
One comment:
“The end of his article is the kind of writing I’d expect to see as a 13 year old girls Facebook status after a fight with her parents. What an amateur.”
Kiwis…looking for ANY excuse to show their ugly racist inner self:
Filipinos appeal against racism over Rena
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/10465420/filipinos-appeal-against-racism-over-rena/
And the worst is the comments, look how those speaking against racism have lots of thumbs down and are hidden (this is also happening with comments against Key and National)
Oh well … National is on track to be re-elected, I hope they get it.
The problems are not only ignored, they are propagated.
And woe to you if you are not a local and see them, because you will then be “re-educated”.
why is it only racism when its directed at the “coloured” races? we call them minorities when whites are only 6% of the worlds population,kinda strange when whites are obviously the minority! try walking round at night time as a white man ur practically guaranteed to get beaten ,robbed or raped by another racial group in certain areas! Unemployment here is skyrocketing with so many jobs being sent overseas and also so many immigrants coming here, i dont wonder why so many are getting fed up. the government wants to kick people off the benefit if they dont find work,great idea but where are these mystical jobs for all? im a white man in invercargill and everywhere i go theres an immigrant or migrant looking down at me, an indian tryed to sexually harrass me some months back guess he never saw romper stomper ahaha sometimes racism has more to do with love for ones own kind and looking for a better future for ones children than irrational hate because of someones skin tone, just a thought based on my experiences. chin up n.z we arent as bad as the media makes out. oi oi southland skinhead!
urgh…Mr SS are there more like you in Invercargill? That may go some way towards explaining the bad reputation the town has earned itself.
http://emigratetonewzealand.wordpress.com/2009/06/01/indian-students-subjected-to-racial-abuse-in-new-zealand/
(And please don’t rep your own comment before it’s published, that’s plain daft)
the NZ elite (read upper class pakeha) are only to blame
who do you think brought lots of people from the islands to be used as cheap labour and then marginalised? who is encouraging asian immigrants to come to NZ only to take their money? who is outsourcing jobs to China and India, where they can exploit the workers and make obscene profits?
………
that’s right, why don’t you blame the likes of JK instead?
i would never buy any products from NEW Zealand. even food (Provision) for my Vessels. i would encourage to buy from other country.
WOW
Speechless, I am happy I did not invest my hard acquired cash in this country. Pfffft I am even withdrawing my investment visa. The world is big i don’t need this dump.
the best decision you could ever make!!!
Sorry – American that lived in Auck for 2 years.
1 – yes there is racism
2- Its the stupid kind of racism because its done by the stupid white population thats become uneducated, cant compete in the workforce, and wants everything given to them on a fuking silver platter.
3- Now saying that, there is heaps of reverse racism where they act the exact same. And for whites, they cant even be safe in some areas. And its not being racially paranoid – they are told they dont belong.
The best lesson that NZ will learn from racism is the market. Dont go there, dont visit, dont send anyone for an education there – tell them to shape up or no one will want to visit or do business with them.
Also WTF is with kiwis trying to sell shit that is shit, for expensive prices?! Its not genuine, its not organic or genuine enough for me to buy your crap. Knock it off !
Firstly, I am Indian and YES there is racism in New Zealand for sure!! I am from South Africa(The country with one of the biggest racism issues) and in all my years there i have never experienced the kind of racism i have here..
By the way to the people who keep saying we should just bugger of and go back to our own countries or go elsewhere!! may i remind you that your government has put a call out to people over of the world asking for assistance in building up your country!! WHY?? Simple!! Your whole countries population can fit in half of one small city in South Africa… In your own news they have stated clearly that the biggest problem here is that people are unwilling to study and use the benefits afforded to them by the Government!! SO no one is STEALING anything from you!! A job is a job and is given on the merit of someones education and expertise… if you think it is being given to an immigrant because they are brown, black or any other colour then i suggest you take that up with your government and recruitment agencies etc….
If you didnt have a shortage in this country for skilled labour, i doubt any immigrant would bother giving it a second look.. and as for us all packing up and leaving, well we could all do that gladly but i can assure without of a shadow of a doubt that not one person in this country would be able to save it from the massive sinkhole it would cause in your infrastructure…
I agree with the writer of the main article…. they want our money and for some reason, our money doesnt have any colour right?!! Just good enough to use to feed them , clothe them and pay for their luxuries…
I am appalled at people’s behaviour here and cannot believe the ignorance i have read here and seen around me!! Do you people seriously believe that you can live in a country all by yourselves and survive?
Do you realise who the super powers are in this world??? Well let me fill you in!!
Its not the UK, not the USA and definitely not one european Country!! NEWSFLASH!! Its China and India…… so i would be careful who you get swords crossed with….
New Zealand is a drop in the ocean when it comes to population compared to Asian countries… Id be careful who i make my enemy….
As for the people who think the whole world owes them everything…. if you are on the internet then use it for something useful like reading about the history of your own country and the world around you!! You will find that the oldest inhabitants of New Zealand were in fact the Maori and later on the Indian people…..Complain all you want, it doesnt change the history of this country…
And i aint going anywhere…..why? Because not one human being on this planet owns a certain part of it specially for himself…. the world belongs to God…. so no other human being can tell me where i can and cannot live and breathe…. (unless people in new zealand crap in an extra special way, breathe extra special air and when they speak, warm honey rushes out) If non of these things apply to you, nothin makes you any better than me….
and one extra note….. ask yourself this one thing all racists who may be reading this….. What do you go to the beach and tanning salons for?
TO TAN!!!!
What colour is TAN (yes TAN is a colour)
TAN IS BROWN!!! (yes thats right!!)
and what colour am I? Brown
… this means you spend most of your free time to be the same colour as i am cause you think its better than your own colour… yet funnily enough you have a problem with me cos i am brown…. LOL biggest joke ever!! (just a point to ponder)
End of the day we are all human beings… if i see you as a human and not as a colour… why cant you see me the same way? Or, is that just too much to ask from mere mortals..
It’s a lot easier to justify being bad to someone else when you don’t see them as human beings.
Hence why they see you as a colour.
It also salves the conscience so you don’t feel guilty later.
After all, if a person feels guilty for being racist, that means that being racist is wrong, but some people have such self-belief that they are never wrong … so they can never be racist, even if others see them act in that way.
Racism is learned. Through parents, friends and education.
Name one other city, in one other country that has altered it’s ethnic make up
as much as Auckland in the past couple of years. Is there an Indian city for
example? Were the local tax paying voters ever asked if they approved?
No they were not.
My take on the Indian sub-continent recent immigrants is that they come
pumped up and entitled. No doubt this has been aided and abetted by
consultants who care nothing for New Zealand.
Before you start your oh so predictable rant against pakeha Kiwis consider
the country did not come into existence overnight, and especially not just to cater
for you.
Before you criticise, create something worthwhile, and not another shop or cafe,
or any other minimum wage service business. A real business that actually
makes and exports.
I see too many recent immigrants loafing about and complaining. If things are so
awful the answer lies in the direction of Auckland airport and a ticket home.
One other thing, if you can dish it out, then you can damn well take it. But don’t
be a coward and hide behind asinine assertions of racism.
In fact, like the Chinese, just damn well get on with it, and don’t expect us to
change for you. When in Rome, eh? Or when in Mumbai?
Go tell that to your con artist government, who is out in the wide world desperately hunting for immigrants!
Luckily sites like this have come into existence to try to warn people about the true ugly, poor and nasty face of this country. Unfortunately, your taxes keep the PR machine of your government well oiled, to attract more unfortunate souls to this pit. Mermaid chants…
Of course lots of disappointed immigrants want to leave, but is not easy when they have wasted so much money coming here. In fact, getting in is easier to get out.
The place just ain’t worth working for, when you get peanuts, mistreatment and well know that you are keeping the very lazies that hate you fed and sheltered!!
PS: China and India are nation-states with original populations unlike NZ.
Vadar, thanks for putting yourself forward as an excellent (if rather pompous) example of the deeply ingrained racism and xenophobia that exists in New Zealand.
For the record, Auckland has been altering its ethnic makeup since the first Maori settlers in the 14 century. You already know where Auckland airport is, care to buy a ticket “home” and return the land to its original inhabitants?
II believe that Asian immigrants to New Zealand don’t get a fair deal.
I think that stems from a Government and an elite who shortsightedly view immigration as a quick fix economic solution . We take your money. You prop up the property market and increase consumer demand but sorry no good job or future here. They also insist that NZ wages and salaries remain low relative to costs, especially housing.
It’s really a recipe for disaster for all concerned New Zealanders included.
Are New Zealanders racist? No doubt. It’s a very small isolated country with a very small population and some fairly dyed in the wool views . Do we have the right to be racist?
I don’t know.
I have lived in Asia for 8 years and have found that I am universally disliked here as a foreigner. Yet foreigners here make up a very small proportion of the total population. I am unable to buy property and have to pay a great deal to remain in the country because getting residency is outright impossible.
Do Asians have the right to be xenophobic and racist?
You tell me.
You are forgetting a crucial point: the image NZ projects overseas is at complete odds with the reality. NZ pretends to be a friendly country who wants immigrants to come and settle, it pretends to have “shortage of skills” (what a crock!, tell that to the thousands of young kiwis going to Oz) to attract immigrants with money, and invents a series of immigration programs to keep the people coming here (silver fern visa, retirement visa, etc.).
On the other hand, it is no secret that Asian countries have vast, mostly homogeneous, populations. These countries are NOT looking for immigrants. Their strict rules concerning residency and citizenship are well known. That xenophobia exists is no secret. This information is all out in the world, and China or Korea or any of them is not screaming saying that it wants immigrants to go and settle there. These countries are old nation-states with a culture developed over thousands of years. NZ is a country product of the European taking foreign lands and colonizing them, and now bringing more settlers for money. If you go to Asia, you get what you were sold. If you go to NZ, you get a pig in a poke.
Apples and oranges, mate!
Grover: if you are universally disliked in Asia as a foreigner … how have you been able to find work there?
In NZ, many immigrants are discovering that not only are they universally disliked(to the extent where being “liked” means they can count on being told the straight truth and not be misled or have something they have a right to completely overlooked or “forgotten”, they cannot find jobs in NZ WITH THE QUALIFICATIONS THEY EARNED WHILE AT NZ INSTITUTIONS.
“have to pay a great deal to remain in the country because getting residency is outright impossible.”
Doesn’t make sense, because unless you are a university student, (and even then I doubt you are paying the typical 4.5 – 5x fees of the domestic students), sundries and goods are fixed price for immigrants OR locals. Do you mean you are paying more because you don’t have a job AND have to pay day to day expenses? Most Asian countries don’t have welfare. And many Asians are worked to the bone for little pay … which is why many labour intensive manufacturing processes are located in Asia. The contracts of these processes, many come from the West, through companies supported by private shareholders (who are usually normal folk) who want a return on investment that exceeds normal banking returns, and ignore prevailing economic conditions.
On the other hand, if you are Caucasian, it is no secret that getting some plum jobs (which ask for little by way of effort, research or qualifications) is easier. English teacher? You may laugh at that … but all it takes is _ANY_ degree … and not even a good grasp of the language is necessary. I have seen people confuse “affective” and “effective”. And teaching English too. It seems that as a citizen of a western country, it is a given that your English is flawless – you do not have to sit for examinations which question your English fluency, or pay for them as extras to complete your degree.
Whereas even if you’re not Caucasian, coming from a Western country brings a certain cachet as long as the basic norms of the region you are in, are followed.
“White privilege” is something many Asians are loath to bring up in NZ … and something many NZ-ers refuse to recognise.
I admire you. You sound as protective of your culture as I am of mine. Economics be damned.
I agree with all those comments about Asians being treated as “cash cows’ for the NZ economy. See what happens to our German investor Kim Schmitz or Kim Dotcom. He was rejected by the NZ Immigration due to his previous criminal convictions but upon putting $10 million into the NZ government bonds under the Investor scheme, they let him in. According to the press, no Minister was involved in his approval for residency. This is definitely a joke as such a high profile guy would require more deeper discussions into it. It is a slap on the Immigration Dept and the NZ government for their shallow decision to allow him in for his money. And they only acted when Big Brother from FBI USA gave them pressure…
I wonder why they still allow him to stay on his $30 million villa while they knew it all along he is doing something illegal…did they not deport poor overstayers immediately and put them on the plane? Why did Kim Schmitz have better treatment than other shady immigrants?? I read also that some Asian investors were turned away as their money was considered illegal….so is Kim’s money legal just because he employs some Kiwis???
It amazes me how blatant people are here in being racist yet everyone else chooses to turn a blind eye and say racism doesnt exist…. when will the NZ government wake up and start taking care of its immigrants and ensuring their safety??
No point putting out adverts begging immigrants to come over due to skill shortages and needing investors to invest hard earned money here…. no one wants to put in years of experience and earnings when there is a possibility they may lose their lives for the mere fact that they live and breathe and happen to have a colour thats a shade or two darker..
I would like to remind all close minded people who are not aware of the world around them…. NZ economy runs on the back of immigrants… without us, you would be a country lost and forgotten….its also so hilarious that those that really are racist are generally those that are at home each and every day and surviving only on the dole…. before pointing fingers at us immigrants, why dont you ask your government where your dole is being funded from???
As for the kiwis that complain we are taking their jobs and there is no work left for them… i suggest you visit http://www.seek.co.nz... have a long hard look at the thousands of jobs available there and the statement at the end of every one clearly stating that they will only employ citizens and those with residence….. so stop using that old worn out excuse… it is so irritating to hear and the dumbest thing ever.. If you dont have the education or skill those jobs require, dont blame us for your laziness..
And finally, i have read and heard plenty of stories of racism here in NZ and i am appalled that immigrants have gotten killed here and things are so hushed, you would think their life was worth nothing…
If anything had to happen to a NZ citizen in South Africa or India or other asian countries…the world would immediately hear about it…. the scary part is that this NZ government sweeps it under the carpet as if it were nothing….Its a sad sad state of affairs…the human race gone bad…
a lot of people commenting on this are very deluded. ive lived in new zealand for 2 years and im colombian/chinese. nz is the fourth country i hav lived in and it is certainly the least racist. colombia, malaysia and argentina are all much more racist than new zealand.
of course there is racism everywhere but visitors in nz will find that the vast majority of peopl simply do not care where your’e from. and to say chinese or indians get the most racism is a lie. maori are by far the most frequently abused. stop whining about a small issue. in china, people of ethnic minoritys are constantly abused. in india, the number of different religions face a constant battle with each other. and south africa is not even comparable with new zealand in racism. to say nz has ‘shocking’ racism is just dumb.
However, there are many who DO suffer the effects of racism in New Zealand and who are certainly NOT deluded. For you to suggest that they are doesn’t do much for your own credibility. It also calls into question your own definition of racism and how tolerant you may’ve become to it.
Anyone concerned about encountering racism in New Zealand may wish to read some of our posts on this topic. Here’s the link.
The first post is about thugs in Christchurch who tried to set dogs on a Japanese student, the next story is about an Indian gentleman who was kicked in the head in an Auckland shopping mall by two school girls. There are many more to read after those.
I’m a Filipino,and I was planning to study Phd in New Zealand.Are all these experiences really true?After I read your comments here, I’m thinking twice about pursuing my plans. I finished my master’s degree in Brisbane two years ago, met two minor (tolerable) incidents of racism. I don’t know why, but it seems that the comments I’ve read here so far are scaring me more than what I’ve personally handled in Australia.
One word: DON’T.
Racism is the same, if not worse, than in Australia and job opportunities are ZERO, especially for people with advanced degrees. The quality of lecturers is appalling, you will have no support whatsoever and will be used as pawn for your supervisors benefit. Many people drop out of their programs because of this, a little secret they keep well hidden.
Go to Europe or North America, or if not possible, stay in Oz, you will be much better off there!
I’m a kiwi living in Australia (Brisbane). My partner who I met overseas is Korean, we moved to (for me back to) New Zealand together, and experienced most of the racist stuff people have talked about here:
*Being randomly told “go home Asian” on the street
*Being discriminated against both in job application and interviews – this is by far the worst as it affects your life on a deeply personal level
*My partner was often passed over in shops by attendants, and treated with disrespect when I wasn’t there
*being told by acquaintances “If you don’t like it leave”.
*…
Well in the end we did leave. Moved to Oz – Brisbane. We both love it, and have not experienced anything like the problems in New Zealand (read essentially nothing in four years). We’ve also lived in Canberra (five years) and LA (two years). No problems in those places either.
This is a very kiwi problem, unfortunately.
…and you’ll get a better education in Australia too.
It’s great over here! So if anyone out there in kiwiland’s not happy – make the move. You won’t regret it.
If you’re a girl you’ll probably only have to endure some gropes, along with that line from Full Metal Jacket: “Me sucky-sucky. Me love you too much.”
If you’re reasonably in the dark about what constitutes racial microaggressions, you’ll probably not even see those instances. e.g. when arriving at a house you’re supposed to rent, it’s “suddenly unavailable” or that job which you were turning up for an interview for, is “suddenly unavailable” or people coming up to you and speaking english R E A L L Y S L O W L Y … or telling you “Your English is so good, where did you learn it?” along with reading on the university library noticeboard “gooks go home” or seeing a diagram outside the toilets telling you not to squat on them.
I’ve heard way worse happens to Asian guys. Being beaten up by yobs (I got away from one of those incidents). But I’m sure many instances … go unreported. As the people being beaten on “don’t want to be seen as troublemakers or nuisances to the police”
Why not study for your Phd in Brisbane? you already know what you’re dealing with plus your degree is far more likely to have international kudos than one from New Zealand.
We refer you to the QS University Rankings, no NZ university made it into the top 50 and Auckland’s position fell from 68 to 82. See our Education and Children’s Issues page for further details.
The Shanghai Jiao Tong ranking is more realistic, with Auckland ranked 201-300….juts sayin’
Anyone fearing moving to NZ based on some fear of racism is sadly misguided. It seems all too easy for people to decree a race as being racist (which in itself demonstrates great prejudice and strong racism) based on little more than what they’re seen on a sensationalised tv report from India or a headline grabbing story locally.
The facts are that NZ, and even moreso Australia, are very welcoming places that on a global scale are SAFE. You don’t need to worry about getting shot, stabbed, attacked, blown up, run over, robbed, organs stolen
, kept hostage or any of those wonderful things that you DO need to be mindful of in much of Asia, Africa, Europe, South America or indeed some parts of North America.
Many of those reported “race crimes” are perpetrated by peoples own countrymen, certainly in many of the examples of the “Indian student attacks in Melbourne” that were apparently so bad that the Indian Govt declared a travel warning on their website. 120,000 Indians visiting Australia at that time, 1240 crimes recorder against Indian visitors, 23 of those had a racial tone, half of those were committed by Indians visiting Australia.
It is all too easy to brand a whole nation on the actions of a very few and it make me laugh that those who perpetuate the Australian/NZ myths seem to be the most racist of all. If not through the troubles in their other homelands, through their hatred of their own countrymen.
I take no issue with anyone being concerned with racism in where they wish to travel – who wouldn’t check out the likelihood of running into trouble in a foreign country? I do take serious issue with the number of fools that throw around “racism, prejudice, bigot” without due care and certainly without understanding what those words actually mean.
On the OP’s original statement, yes, you will find racism in NZ. You won’t find us herding up Indians and beating them to death with sticks and rocks as you might see on the Asian continent. You will not see us dragging them from their cars and setting fire to a petrol soaked tyre around their head as you might in Africa. You will not see us kidnapping a busload of you for ransom as you might see in South America, Africa or parts of Asia.
You might overhear someone use a name that you don’t like – I would like to guess that if you were unlucky enough to hear it that there would be a 90% chance that, whilst derogatory in nature, it was not said with any malice or intention to offend.
We ask that visitors to our country are respectful of our way of life and do their bit to enjoy it without trying to change it. We live here for a reason you know!
Anyway, sorry to ramble on. We love our visitors down here. We love to learn about our differences and we love to embrace the good we see in you.
Enjoy your time down here for the 99% of good you see, not the 1% of bad.
Thanks for the reply Scott, when you say “here” where do you mean exactly? Your IP address places you in Queensland, Australia. What made you leave New Zealand?
Whilst groups of Indians have not been chased away with sticks in New Zealand there have been random acts of violence against them that are very disturbing. The following two examples were both perpetrated by Kiwis.
Indian Shoppers Attacked In Auckland Shopping Mall
An Indian gentleman who was beaten kicked in the head in an Auckland shopping mall in front of his young daughter. His assailants were female pupils from Mount Albert Grammar School.
The attack came around the time that journalist Paul Henry was making racist comments about India on the state broadcaster. A spokeswoman for TVNZ said “The audience tell us over and over again that one of the things they love about Paul Henry is that he’s prepared to say the things we quietly think but are scared to say out loud.”
India’s High Commission Disgusted At Racist Attack In Hastings, NZ
Rakesh Kumar, 71, was subjected to a violent attack whilst hosting a dinner party at his home in Hastings, NZ. A drunken mob invaded his house, assaulted him and hurled racist abuse at him. The May 8 attack began at 8.45pm, when a heavily intoxicated Jason David Macklow, 21, directed racial slurs at the family property on Oliphant Rd, calling them “black c**ts”, and “f**k off Indians“. The incident was serious enough for the Indian High Commission to become involved and attend the hearing for the accused.
Finally, we direct anyone considering migration to New Zealand and who is concerned about encountering racism to read this blog post from February 2010
I don’t doubt there have been attacks on Indians. I also don’t doubt there have been attacks on Chinese, Koreans, Greeks, Australians, New Zealanders, New Zealand Maori or perhaps even Eskimo’s should they visit from time to time.
What I do query, is whether or not racism is always driver for these things. Clearly in the case of all the issues in Melbourne, the overwhelming majority of crimes against Indians were simply against Indians because they happened to be the unlucky ones at the time – and that would be true of most incidents involving people from other countries.
It is easy for a group of “eager beavers” to get together in a forum and pat each other on the back claiming every other thing as racism but in reality, the likelihood is what is experience much of the time is simply another lesson from the school of hard knocks.
I absolutely agree that racism exists – I don’t think it is fair to brand an entire country as being racist though…. atleast not without qualifying it to say “XYZ country is X% more racist than somewhere else”.
Perhaps pick a country, lets call it Utopia, and grade each other country against it based on the number and severity of racial incidents perpetrated by people who call that country home.
Now really would give some clarity to the matter.
Scott, you seem to worry a lot about losing revenue from international students, why can that be? oh right! never mind, especially if you went to Aussie like many of your mates…
I find nothing more pathetic than kiwis telling us there is no racism. LOL! tell that to me who has endured bullying, name calling and shouting from cars. Tell that to a friend who was almost glassed by a stoned loser in Auckland. Tell that to the bright graduate who couldn’t find a job. Tell that to the exchange student who was almost run over and told to f*** go home. Tell that to all the people who have lived hell in Christchurch.
What is most pathetic is the arrogance in telling us these things when your kind is the one responsible for the racism! Go buy a mirror and have a good look, you may learn something about nz.
Oh dear, lead with your chin then…
Not at all, I have no interest in monies from Students or Education. Certainly not in NZ!!
I’m not a Kiwi.
I’m not a Kiwi.
Like every other person I have ever met? When it happens to me I just assume they don’t like me for some reason.
I guess you just blame it on racism?
Like every other person who actually WAS glassed but didn’t have racism to hang it on?
Like every other skilled and developed individual that missed a job…. but this one had race to cling too?
Same thing happened to me in Christchurch!
Tough town. What else would you expect in any tough town anywhere else in the world?
And what kind is that? (personal attack deleted by E2NZ)
I didn’t throw 2c in for an argument, I chipped in for an alternate view. Something I would have thought a thread full of people searching for open discussion on a sensitive and polarizing subject would embrace.
Funnily enough, I’ve encountered limp responses that include little more that the same things that everyone I know has endured at some time or another.
My comments in my original post were not meant to cast NZ as a “racist-less” place, but as a place where you should not fear travelling to for its racism issues.
Please enlighten me with any Country on this planet where strong racism, prejudice or oppression are not or have not been a REAL issue.
In this world, racism is a debate about relativity. It is either better or worse than somewhere else – not is it there or not.
Interesting thought but wrong on so many levels. What would you do, construct a league table of racism for every country in an effort to show how New Zealand compares to other countries?
Wouldn’t a better alternative be to examine a country’s record on combating racism. i.e. how much it tolerates racism or not: For example the establishment of robust and progressive anti-discrimination legislation, effective enforcement of it and suitable penalties for breaking that legislation. The presence of proactive policies in education, sport, media and in the workplace.
Did you know that NZ police won’t even collect data on racial abuse and the government say its not a priority? There is no data to even work with in New Zealand so how can anyone judge the effectiveness of anti-racism initiatives.
Even New Zealand’s Race Relations Commissioner, Joris de Bres, has asked for that. As far back as September 2009 we covering reports which stated that everyday ‘race hate’ is rife in places like Christchurch. At that time Joris de Bres said race-hate crimes were a problem not just in Christchurch but around the country and were occurring more often than was reported to police:
p.s. please don’t give your comments the thumbs up before they’ve even published. That’s just silly and who are you trying to impress anyway?
Kiwi is australia are just as racist as when they are in nz. In fact, the new zealander is no more of less than a nazi race
and full of hot air too, like a belly after a meal of beans lol!
all noise but no real substance, and full of lies as well
Scott, you also said
which is it Scott? are you’re a recent convert to the New Zealand culture and eager not to have your belief system shattered. Is your way of accepting it to tell yourself that other places are so much worse?
What if they’re not?
How a Government [says it] wants to tackle racism and how the people of the same country feel and act are two very different, and often mutually exclusive things.
Governments that try to control peoples thoughts are in the fine company of North Korea – and isn’t that a glowing ideal.
If you want to measure a countries approach to racism [and that is a country of people, not a government] then you must look at what is real and happening, not the polished message of a bureaucrat.
Racism is everywhere – period. The sales pitch of a government do not change that, at best it might suppress the obviousness until a blow-up happens. Pick a country, any country, and I’ll rattle off a list of racial atrocities.
The mere fact that you have dark skin is not always the reason you are harassed. The notion that you did not get a job because you are a Jew is mostly ridiculous. The fact that you got a glass shoved in your face is almost certainly just because you are one of those making up numbers in the human race.
Where would you rather live E2NZ? In Auckland where you “might” get a drunk might call you a name and where the odds of you getting punched are below the average of Kiwi’s ——> or in the Middle East where they might beat you to death for what they think your beliefs might be?
Racism is everywhere, the only way to measure it is in relativity. If every country is bad at best, because some racism is exhibited, then all you can do is aim to avoid the worst.
The ideal is great, but it is just that – an ideal. Pick the best country you can, make it your home and do your bit to make it a better place.
You obviously believe racism is an issue and I wholeheartedly agree. It is the scale of that issue, the misinformation on that issue, the wrongful reporting of that issue and the festering racism that the aforementioned perpetuates that I loathe too.
As an aside, I have been called a racist in the past few weeks. I parked my car, with my wife and child, at a supermarket in Brisbane. Why was I a racist that day? Because the person I did not see that was also going for the same spot happened to be an African of some descent.
Surely right now, in a pub, club, home or forum that person is prattling on about the racist, egalitarian bastard that took a car space based on race. Maybe they’re on here right now!
I have said my bit and care no more to explain an alternate view. I hope you find your Utopia one day.
And you too Scott.
Racism is everywhere but mostly in new zealand as people in this country don’t have any respect for other human beings in this world. They are mostly racist towards asian and often throwing rubbish at them or even beat them to death because they are asian…
exactly, and the worst thing is how they deny this happening or try to give some pathetic excuse (see above posts as an example…), the kiwi thinking is monolithic and full of denial, one of the reasons that make nz such a s**t place to live in…
An interesting discussion about that:
http://www.expatexposed.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=30217
“Kiwi experience is a very subtle coercian tool. It is a way to take away your power and hand it over to the arbitrary legitimizers.
Example. If a job requires more qualifications, I can empower myself to get the qualification.
I can’t empower myself to get Kiwi Experience. I have to hand over my power to somebody else to do it for me.
Therefore, New Zealand, for migrants, is not a true meritocracy. It is a dictatorship masquerading as a democracy.
For some Migrants, the constraints of Kiwi Experience are loosened. For others, tightened.
Then New Zealand wonders why it flounders in the OECD. Because it doesn’t want people to win. It wants certain people to win – not all people.”
“Kiwi experience” is imo an excuse to legally get away with discrimination (I’m not sure if they can be sued for racism in backwards nz, as happens in the US…).
It’s a load of bull*****, what makes the “kiwi” in the experience so special?
Much like academics are more petty and vicious because the stakes are so small, New Zealand feels extra-ferocious about being “overrun” by foreigners because there’s so little land to run over.
Except for when James Cameron want to buy a few farms and he’s welcomed with open arms. Would he have had a different reception if his name was Jackie Chan?
It’s funny how most Kiwis hates the asian community here while the government seems to believe that the Asians are the key to having a better NZ economy. Maybe one should sent this blog address to all decision makers or government representatives in Asia who has the idea of having an agreement with NZ government. A warning that they will just use, their people, the Asians as a tool or better yet, Cash Cows and not respect them as a human being. I’m just saying…coming from my personal experience of Asian racism.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10783278
Just take a look around the area in Auckland. Most restaurants are dominated by Asian Restaurants – thai, malaysian, chinese, indian. 2dollar shops owned by Asian businessmen are the one thriving. These businesses are probably one of the biggest contributor in the NZ economy.
“government seems to believe that the Asians are the key to having a better NZ economy” –
They can piss off. IMHO that’s the attitude.
Um, no, the government believes that ASIAN MONEY is the key to having a better NZ economy. Not the real live Asians attached to the money.
Refugees say bullying part of New Zealand culture :
http://www.newswire.co.nz/2011/06/bullying-part-of-nz-culture-say-refugee-youth/
from the fire to the pan? from the pan to the fire?
poor people
Who thought that the Kiwis are down-to-earth, friendly and helpful when the large majority of underclass are into bad manners.A Caucasian lady stole my parking lot in a Westfield Mall in Auckland some years ago even though she saw me waiting for the other car to get out of the car park lot.Even the other car driver, an Indian lady was so upset with this lady’s action of bullying or inconsiderateness that she stopped her car and spoke to me.
I also heard of a customer spitting into a jeweller’s face as she thought that the jeweller took some grams of her gold away from a ring she sent to him for melting. These are crude and uncivilized manners coupled with going out with no shoes, smelling awful, unkempt hair and clothes. I have been to many other countries and still have not encountered people yelling at you from their cars or throwing drink cans at you. Does anyone has similar experiences in other countries?
The gentrification of the underclass will take more than 3 generations if any government bothers to spend any budget on them…it is a long way to civilized society in NZ. One reader from UK is really right about NZ; it is a South Pacific island more than a first class country with superior infrastructure.
Bullying the refugees is the same as opposing the Chinese to buy the Crafar farms as the paper shows that Americans, Canadians and even Liechtensteinians are buying far more land than the Chinese.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6368089/Who-is-really-buying-New-Zealand
“Land Information Minister Maurice Williamson has called the negative reaction to the Crafar farms xenophobic and racist.
Williamson said that when Canadians, Americans, Germans and Swiss bought farmland there had not been a ”mutter or a murmur”.
So the Kiwis are ignorant and display their fears making a mockery of themselves.
I suggest they should turn themselves into the next North Korea where nobody gets in and nobody gets out and all things stay status quo for the next hundreds of generations. Nobody will be complaining of oil diggers coming to steal the oil, etc and you don’t have to sell state assets as well so no more protests at Waitangi Day.
NZ will have peace eventually….
Asians most discriminated against in NZ
http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8417662/asians-most-discriminated-against-in-nz
In line with that, a reply to what Prasad said would be very interesting
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/6399366/Making-your-education-investment-pay
…
Prasad #16 05:11 pm Feb 13 2012
I think the way ford is to limit kiwis from going to university. It is too expensive and the country cant afford it.
It makes more sense to say allow 25% of Students to be kiwis and have it free, Then the other 75% can be full fee payers from overseas like I was and then all foreign students should get residency after graduation. The rest of the kiwis who miss out can do ordinary work like supermarket,labouring and retail work, and then the graduates like myself dont have to do that low class work and have the high income statys wee deserve.
and
cm #6 11:06 am Feb 13 2012
For every dollar the student invests, we taxpayers invest two. For that reason it is important that more students take course that actually have a real benefit to society.
As for PhDs… their worth depends very much on the area.
A BSc in Computer Science is enough to get you a job that pays well. On the job experience is generally considered more valuable than extra degrees.
In chemistry, a BSc allows you to be a low-level lab worker. You need an MSc or PhD to be taken at all seriously.
As for a PhD in French History…. well that’s pretty much worthless.
My comment? I’d disagree with that idea of a STEM qualification “easily earning you a place in a higher pay bracket”.
Reason being that your bosses are very likely unqualified, and intimidated by real credentials earned through hard work, critical thinking and an analytical process. The people who have only an “MBA without a first degree” are very likely to be both crooked and misrepresent themselves, since a (professional) degree indicates adherence to certain codes of conduct and the requirement to be audited … which HR overlooks to their legal detriment.
It doesn’t help that for many instances of employment in NZ, it is not “what you know” but “who you know”.
A professional will likely be turned down for a mate of the boss’ son, in any position where the faults of faulty personnel staffing decisions can be glossed over.
Throughout all my enquiries for a STEM position in my field of qualification in NZ (over 50, not counting resume drop-offs to HR consultants AND positions in technical support (where I noticed the technicians could not perform proper diagnoses or explain what was wrong)), I did get the chance to hear one of them tell me that my resume would most likely be binned (despite the university I attended), and not to expect a reply since I was an international student (nevermind the fact that I had finished my qualification and had completed my course completely in New Zealand).
What is low class work?
All work is honorable.
“Kiwis can do this low class work.”
These comments do you no favours.
Note to readers those were Prasad’s comments being quoted by P Ray, not his own.
Grover,
please don’t lend weight to this article.
Thank you.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10778099
“New Zealand needs to do more to improve our workforce’s literacy, numeracy and language skills if we are to achieve significant economic growth, according to business leaders.”
Turning away qualified people will have a knock-on effect, that will certainly affect national growth.
As far as racism is concerned in New Zealand, I admit that it’s very much alive. However, instead of complaining about it, immigrants should instead understand it. Why is there racism? When I was growing up, I didn’t see an Asian until about the age of 14. Now within only a few years, Asians are fulling up our streets, driving flash cars, buying luxury items such as cars, houses etc… All because they have more or less brought their way into New Zealand for a better life. These immigrants may or may not have the skills we lack, and may or may not necessarily be interested in working in any of those fields. Instead, they want to come to New Zealand for the social benefits such as health, air and a higher standard of living that they will never get in Asia. Because of this very reason, they aren’t interested at all in integrating into society, rather they want to segregate themselves and live their life as if they were in their home country. If they only took a look at themselves, they would understand why there is so much resentment towards them. 1. they don’t integrate into New Zealand. 2. Most don’t have any desire or aspiration of integrating. 3. They don’t see how their spending habits and bling actually go against the New Zealand culture, how traditionally we conserved and saved, making do with what we had without the need for copious luxury goods… how does this make kiwis feel when a segment of the population goes against the grain?? – Maybe NZ is a little behind the times, but progress such as this needs to be introduced slowly as culture is a mindset not easily changed. Instead, the so called “asian invasion” has dramatically changed things, too quickly resulting in resentment and “racism” but I think the same would apply in any country with such circumstances. 4. They only speak their language, or they speak English to you, but speak Chinese in front of you when another Chinese is present, completely cutting you out of the conversation. 5. They spit a lot …… I’m not saying that Chinese are wrong, and I’m not saying that Kiwis aren’t racist… All I’m saying is that for the most part, Chinese were originally culturally insensitive to New Zealanders which in turn created a butterfly effect still existing today.
In addition I speak chinese, I lived in China for 1 year… I found it too racist and moved home. One reason for that was when I spoke Chinese to Chinese people (in China), they would only reply to me in English… how arrogant? not to mention how my Chinese is better than most of their English…. And how dare they assume my native tongue is English just because I’m white. Now I have returned home, I have noticed the Chinese government investing a lot of money nation wide to provide an avenue for non-chinese to learn chinese, encourage us to learn chinese culture and live and breath the language through the confusious institute…. now, where’s the logic in that when the Chinese are so superior to any other race that they refuse to speak their own language to a non-chinese citizen? My girlfriend (to be wife) is Chinese, and the majority of Chinese are ruining the reputation for the minority of Chinese like my girlfriend who are actually traditional, humble and sincere people who care about others and uphold the traditional and beautiful aspects of old China. That gets me started on another point, every single Chinese that has found out I’ve got a Chinese girlfriend from China has openly at some stage or another said to me or my girlfriend in private that our relationship will fail, we will get a divorce and that there’s no future. WTF? It annoys me so much. Looking at the statistics, married couples have a 20-30% chance of divorce, which is quite high in comparison to some Asian countries, but still low enough to unwarrant those unfriendly, uninviting comments that our relationship will fail. It hasn’t so far, and I can’t imagine it ever will. In comparison to China, when European men marry their wife, they stay loyal most of the time, yes there’s always an exception to that rule, but that’s the general census. China however, the man gains more face with every new addition of mistresses. They either cheat on their wives with prostitutes, or they have another if not a few more girlfriends on the side…. with all this going on, what gives Chinese the right to condem our relationship on the basis that I’m white? Answers please???
Reece I like you have lived in Asia and still do.
I agree with all the points you made.
The big problem is one of culture.
India and China have ancient cultures and the people from these countries identify strongly with them.
We have been taught, our culture does not exist but we must respect the culture of others.
It’s a weird situation.
Asians can justify their actions right or wrong based on their cultural views.
We can not.
I would love every liberal Kiwi to spend some time in Asia. Work there.
Understand that real cultural differences exist between Asia and New Zealand.
Maybe then they won’t be so carefree using the label “racist” and some real progress in terms of cultural understanding can be made. It would also encourage the development of more intelligent policy regarding the movement of people between the two regions .
As somebody recently posted, Asian nations do not want immigrants from outside their own countries. This is understood. It’s what they want and they are completely honest about it.
P.S. I still can’t take the spitting. Yuk.
Grover, perhaps you’d like to say where you live in Asia? Some countries have been affected more than others by Western intervention.
I would like you Reece, to answer a few questions. Why do you think you are not racist?
Why do you think you must make an excuse for kiwi racists?
Let me tell you what I have observed from your ill informed comments.
Firstly is buying a luxury car or a decent house a reason for racism?, if this goes against kiwi culture of (” how traditionally we conserved and saved, making do with what we had without the need for copious luxury goods…”) then does that mean kiwi’s are un-accepting of cultures that are different from theirs?, or does it mean that when any immigrant arrives in New Zealand must they forget who they are or their reasons for coming to New Zealand??
So tell me – “HOW DOES? this make kiwis feel when a segment of the population goes against the grain??”
Why would anyone in their right mind leave their country for any other reason than for a better life than they already have?? ….healthcare and “air” etc may be advantages to some people, just as higher salaries in Australia are attractive to Kiwis crossing the border…..are these not for the same reasons?? A better life?? No immigrant would come to this country if New Zealand didnt have anything to offer them…. in return New Zealand gains skills and more taxpayers which supplements healthcare, social security and even your precious “air” not just for themselves but for every person living in New Zealand. It is always going to be a mutual relationship….
Do not assume that it is easy to get into New Zealand just because of money that you think immigrants buy their way in with…….many immigrants come from Countries whose currencies values are significantly less than the New Zealand dollar and from places where they have to pay for their own healthcare and social security and no government assistance is provided….if you don’t work, you don’t eat or have a roof over your head, if you don’t pay for education, you live without it…
So the skilled migrants that immigration is being so tough on when wanting to immigrate to New Zealand have paid their way in time and money to gain educations in their own countries which in turn benefits New Zealanders just for the very healthcare and “air” their pay for here by way of taxes. I can honestly tell you, any immigrant in his right mind will willingly pay less taxes and forfeit healthcare and take care of his own health.
Ask yourself another question….or better still… ask your girlfriend what LANGUAGE is CHINESE? As far as i know there is no such language and how is it not offensive when Kiwi suddenly speaks “chinese” to someone who he assumes speaks “chinese”…..how did you know that they speak “chinese” and not any other language or even english for that matter?? If you are offended by someone speaking to you in english and assuming that is your language, how do you expect a chinese person not to be offended??
Who is being racist now? You judging them by the way they look or them judging you by the way you look?
What is so wrong about the chinese government funding classes to learn their language? Since as you say there is an influx of chinese people in new zealand, would it not be a good idea to build better relations with the people who live in your community?
Is this an insult to the kiwi way of life to learn another language?
Its like saying that by offering sign language classes in this country the government is saying that all hearing people must become deaf??? Does this make any sense to you ???
By the Chinese government offering this service, does this not prove to you that the chinese people have no problem with you joining in their conversation when they speak to each other and instead not see it as an insult that they prefer to speak their language just as you prefer to speak english to your friends in a public setting as that is the language you are most comfortable with? Should then the chinese person feel insulted that you are not speaking his language when he is present??
Have you thought about how considerate a chinese person is being by speaking your language (english) to you instead of speaking his language to you which is more comfortable for him and not expecting you to speak “chinese” or simply understand it?
You are very quick to insult and demean a chinese man in saying that they have mistresses or see prostitutes…. exactly how many chinese men do you know to be able to paint them all with one brush but instead you want chinese people to be considerate to you with regards to your faithfulness regardless of the clear statistics that you yourself have pointed out….??
Remember this one fact, china has a population estimated to be over 1 BILLION whereas the total population of New Zealand is estimated at just 4.4 MILLION. It is far easier to paint New Zealanders with one brush because of the small population but no one is doing this….so once again ask yourself who is being racist and judgmental??
These are observations i have made of your comments and my personal answer to you.
You may say that i am racist because of what i have said but as far as my comments go, you have no idea what race or nationality i am.
So look at yourself and the way you have separated New Zealand whites from New Zealand asians and tell me this is not racism and how does your view differ from any other “so called racist kiwi” ??
The thing to watch out for is this:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10787888
“Students flee NZ over job fears
By Elizabeth Binning
9:30 AM Saturday Feb 25, 2012
Finding a job is one of the biggest worries for today’s tertiary students – so much so that many are planning to leave the country when they finish studying.”
“When asked what their biggest fear was once they had left study, 21 per cent of students said it related to whether or not they would be able to find a job in their chosen field.”
My prediction (towards Asia) is for an increase in English teachers without any real qualification in teaching English beyond the cachet of coming from New Zealand,
My prediction (towards NZ) is for an increase in immigrant labour and the use of the 90day probation as a chance for businesses to overwork people and shuffle them around so they don’t have to pay permanent salaries.
“student loan holders who do go abroad tend to have bigger loans than those who remain here after completing their study.” International students will be paying for that shortfall, with no guarantee of a proper job (paying 5x the fees, and then having the perception around that they “bought their degrees”, while locals get to say they “got their degrees on merit”)
At many universities I am sure the question that international students dare not ask is “will we get a job after we have finished here?” and the student advisors will deftly tell them that they have shortcomings which can’t be addressed (actually, it’s more like prejudices from others which can’t be surmounted).
The funny thing about that article is that they never mention how many applications an international student has to send in to even GET an interview.
What is interesting in such articles is what they leave out, not what they put in.
It sounds like you got a good dose of nastiness from both sides of the fence. I don’t envy your position! But as a European white person I would love to be fluent in Chinese – lucky you (in that sense)!
There is still a lot of misunderstanding between different cultures and what Reece said about Chinese men having mistresses or visiting prostitutes are what he had read negatively about Chinese men. The media enjoy churning out attention grabbing headlines. The ex IMF boss D.Strass-Kahn and the former Italian chief Berlusconi were not angels to their wives too.
Someone told me a case of a Asian worker who was bypassed in two promotions in her bank as she was Asian and hence could not take the managerial position. The irony is that she had to train the 2 new managers appointed to do their jobs correctly. She could not stand a chance being a non Kiwi. The lady has since left the country and gone overseas.
Racism does exist in NZ. You only have to listen to what the immigrants have to say aboout their experiences.
New zealand is the nastiest and the most racist nation on earth….They are completely backwards and backstabbing bunch of people…
You come and visit their country, spend all of your money and then they will kick you out of their country…
Just checkout http://www.newzealandracism.blogspot.com
sure there are some morons but most kiwis are from all over and love foriginers.
Well yes it is not only Asians being treated like that. I am from another country and are treated like that. I can not even find a job here with two degrees and many years of experience. I do not have an accent but am from the wrong country!!!!!! They will only use immigrants as cheap labour or to line their pockets.
Reece basically talks an absolute load of rubbish, and I doubt he has visited Asia at all. Maybe he has, maybe he has not, really it is irrelevant because his points do not make sense anyway.
Chinese do not want to learn english?
Absolute bollocks. Look at the huge number of english teaching jobs in Asia, not just China, but throughout all of East Asia, for native speakers of english. Surely that fact in itself belies the claim that Chinese are not interested in learning english.
Here in NZ, of course newly arrived migrants will speak their mother tongues. But that is the same with all cultures here, whether Chinese, Korean, Samoan, Tongan, Italians, and Afrikaaners.
The thing is the Chinese kids sure pick up English, and are encouraged to by their parents, and many outscore kids that were born here on national NCEA english exams.
It is a sheer lie that Chinese will not speak English.
The worse people in the world when it comes to adopting a foreign language are the Anglo Saxons. They are the only race who migrate to other countries, and not only do not adopt the local customs and language, but actively suppress the right of the original inhabitants to speak theirs.
I have worked in Hong Kong for many years. The Portuguese people in Macau, learned Cantonese and assimlated with the local Chinese. Yet the English people in Hong Kong do not even let their kids born and brought up there learn Cantonese, for fear that they will go ‘native’ and send their children to ‘international schools’, which are schools mainly for white people.
And in meetings if there is one non-Chinese speaker there EVERYONE without any protest will speak English for the benefit of that one Anglo Saxon in the room. And the Anglo Saxon will not even be grateful for it, but think it is something he should expect.
My girlfriend (to be wife) is Chinese, and the majority of Chinese are ruining the reputation for the minority of Chinese like my girlfriend
Again the facts as you present them are the best testament against your claims of ‘racism’.
If you have visited Hong Kong or China you will note that these types of marriages or dating couples abound ie. white men with Chinese women.
For the most part these couples are completely unmolested by the local population.
Chinese have never lynched, castrated, or killed men of a foreign race for going out with their women folk, unlike whites.
White people, unfortunately, occupy a highly privileged position in East Asia. They are hugely overpaid, by local standard, are waited on hand and foot by the locals, and even worshipped by them. In fact the worship is rather disgusting, and not something I would advocate.
China however, the man gains more face with every new addition of mistresses. They either cheat on their wives with prostitutes, or they have another if not a few more girlfriends on the side…. with all this going on, what gives Chinese the right to condem our relationship on the basis that I’m white?
What an absolute load of rot. Most Chinese couples are a heck of a lot more loyal to each other than the case with Western couples.
How the hell can Reece condemn purported infidelity among Chinese men, when in the West, 1 in 2.7 or almost 40% of men cheat anyway?
Reece’s selective condemnation is ignorant, inflammatory, and utterly racist.
http://tinyurl.com/6mee8oq
The other thing. A Chinese man will never leave his family in the lurch. He will always support his kids, because not to support one’s family is the most unmanly of traits in Asian culture.
The likelihood of a Chinese man abandoning his family, his children, is, I would guess much less than would be case for men of most other ethnicities.
In comparison to China, when European men marry their wife, they stay loyal most of the time, yes there’s always an exception to that rule, but that’s the general census.
Yeah. Right…..between 30 and 40% of Western men cheat, you ignorant fool.
And you mean general ‘consensus’ right?
For heaven’s sake your own English is appalling—-yet you claim to speak Mandarin better than most Chinese can speak English?
These immigrants may or may not have the skills we lack, and may or may not necessarily be interested in working in any of those fields. Instead, they want to come to New Zealand for the social benefits such as health, air and a higher standard of living that they will never get in Asia.
Obviously they are desperate to work in their respective fields. And Asians as a group, are the least burden, proportionally, of all ethnic groups when it comes to using health services and social welfare services. And their crime rate is about 1/4 that of the non-Asian crime rate.
Percentage wise Asians commit far fewer crimes than NZ Europeans.
Anyone notice that Reece is quiet? Wonder Why?!! So glad im not the only one having these bad experiences and that everyone is making their voices heard!! Well done!!
)
I’ve found New Zealand to be racist, but not as much as other countries, here it is found in the humor and slang. “bloody maori” “coconuts” etc. Yet when i asked some people about this they said it was their humor and it wasn’t racist because it was humor, which i thought was rubbish, and when i told them so i got the “you wouldn’t understand you’re not from here” response from them. Which got me looking around to find this thread, no doubt i found New Zealand racist, I’m an English white, female. So i fit in quite well and am very lucky, i would hate to be the maori, islanders or asians here. It’s not as racist as South Africa, England, America however, most of those countries admit they are racist and racism lives there. They also understand that racism isn’t pure hate, it’s making judgment based on race. Which the Kiwis i’ve met seem to be unable to grasp the concept that they don’t have to hate a race and attack them to be racist. So i do believe that New Zealand is quite racist, it’s there and people need to see that. But it’s not as violent as other countries i don’t believe.
@Marie..Thank you for being honest and admitting that NZ is a racist country and that people here dont really understand what racism is and so believe they are innocent in calling people names….
I will say though that you are wrong regarding the 2 countries i DO know about…this being South Africa and England…
I was born and have lived in South Africa for 28 years and in that time i have barely experienced any racism there!! We may come from a history of apartheid but we have come a very long way!! My parents lived through the worst periods where they couldnt take buses or go to the same toilets as a white south africans.
I have never experienced such racism as what i have encountered in NZ over the past 5 months that i have been here… it is absolutely appalling and disgraceful that a country such as this is filled with such ignorance and disregard and hate for those that are different…
As for England, i lived there for 2 years and my brother has gained citizenship there with his family, in the time i have been there i barely had anyone say anything to me…until the terrorist attacks when idiots thought they had a voice… and he also never experienced anything till then and since then… he has lived there for over 11 years…
So i would say in my experience so far…NZ is one of the worst when it comes to racism and its disgusting that the government is doing nothing to protect the immigrants they so desperately need here to support its economy!!
I am indian and so sadly i realize that most people who say they have never seen or experienced it here are always white…. well go figure!! why do you think that is?!! LOL
Ive been told by many people here that they have never heard of such a thing…. WHY?!! Simple i would say…if i tell you ive experienced it and you are busy trying to act like it doesnt exist and prove me wrong… then you will never see it!!
So Marie, before you make statements about another country….. get more facts.please!! If South Africa had no crime and less corruption, i would gladly go back there!!
…NZ tops the charts when it comes to racism.
@Marie, Thank you for being honest about NZ and its racism issues… I must say though that you are wrong when it comes to 2 countries i have knowledge of… this would be South Africa and England….
I am indian and was born and raised in South Africa and i have never experienced racism in my 28 years…to the extent i have experienced it here in NZ in the past 5 months.
South Africa is a country with a history of apartheid and would be excused if that is what is still happening today…but racists are few and far between and you must remember that NZ is small in population…… I come from a city called Durban and we have close to 4 million people there now… which is almost double the whole population of NZ….
So if racism is in South Africa it would be an issue yes and it would be drowned out by the majority….
As for the UK…. I have stayed there for 2 years, my brother has his citizenship and has lived there for 11 years and both of us have not experienced racism there until the terrorist attacks where a few idiots thought it was their time to shine…. since then… there has never been anything racist happen to us….
So as far as i am concerned NZ tops the charts when it comes to racism…… just because you do not see it, does not mean it is there…
As for violence due to racism, i suggest you do more research on the net!! you will find that those kinds of incidents are rampant in NZ and reasons for violence in South Africa and the UK are far from racist…but rather caused by other factors…..
If Crime and Corruption were reduced in South Africa… honestly!! I would go back and live happily….
I find the attitude of alot of kiwis very unfriendly, alot racist, and not welcoming… very close minded people with no sense of the bigger world outside of their small country… and the truth is…this country is small yet people here believe they are living in countries such as America or the UK where the population is massive..
They need to wake up before they get left behind..the world is moving fast and they are still stuck in the dark ages with their beliefs and their attitude…
If they are more open they will find that immigrants and people of colour bring something good to this country..
As for Maori people…. well this is their country and they are native to this country….they have more of a right to be here than any white kiwi…..sadly though alot of people here dont even know their history or respect it.
Hi there people, as a New Zealander I have found reading this blog disturbing. It seems to me that there is a lot of negitivity here. I think that the people who have something bad to say are being motivated to write comments and the people who have something good to say arent bothering. It is sometimes said that if you a bad experience you will tell ten people but if you have a good experience you might tell one.
I think that New Zealand is a diverse country and we get along pretty well, we are not at war. It is always hard to live in a culture that is not your own, and there will always be people who you don’t get along with. But don’t bag NZ too much, yes we have our problems but there are much worse places to live. Out of all the places that I have visited NZ would still be my choice of places to live, and travelling has brought home to me how lucky I am to call New Zealand home.
Tell me, can those of you who call other places home, can you really say that there is no racisim in your own country. Beware throwing bricks he who lives in a glass house.
Remember the kind acts and good things that you have experienced in NZ. Bad news sells but the world might be a better place if we took more notice of the good in this world and gave thanks for our blessings.
Thank you for your comment.
That’s exactly the point we’re trying to make – New Zealand has similar problems to the very countries that migrants used to call home.
Please take time to read our Welcome page and familiarize yourself with the aims of this blog, one of which is to debunk some of the *propaganda and myth that has been built up around the country. Whilst you may prefer the taste of Kool-Aid there are many who don’t
* an example from the New Zealand Now government website. We note that crime has been recently deleted from the list of ‘don’t haves’ for New Zealand.
Quality of life
You may then wish to read our blogs tagged poverty, racism , housing and health, pollution and fraud to get the other side of the story.
Lastly read our facts and stats pages.
Recent examples from NZ news:
Fraud
Racism
Poverty is NZ’s biggest growth industry
Overcrowding
Enjoy the Kool Aid